Trevor Neilson, Co-founder, Chairman and CEO, WasteFuel In conversation with: Ellie Austin, FORTUNE


Fortune Global Forum 2023: Climate Innovation Spotlight - From Dump To Pump 

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The world is suffering from an ever growing solid waste problem. According to the World Bank, more than 2 billion metric tons of municipal solid waste is produced globally every year by 2050. That figure will increase by 70% to 3.4 billion metric tons a year. The increase is driven by factors such as population growth, urbanization, economic development changes in consumption patterns and our lifestyles mismanaged waste contributes to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions and it can also increase the spread of disease in our climate innovation spotlight. Today, we're delighted to be joined by the chairman and CEO of Waste Fuel, a company that's working to address the climate crisis by converting waste into low carbon fuel. He's also the chair of Apco Worldwide Climate and biodiversity team. Please welcome to the stage, Trevor Nielsen. Hi, Trevor. Thank you very much for joining us. So we heard in the introduction about the huge amounts of waste that is produced globally each year. Let's start at quite a basic level. Can you explain to us what the goal of waste fuel is and the technology it uses to achieve that goal? Sure. Well, you know, the basic situation is that the world is choking in the waste that we've produced. You cited some of the numbers as I came out. And a way to think about it is that by 2050 we're going to have more plastics in the ocean than fish. If you imagine the amount of waste that's produced in the world, it would be enough to fill all of Manhattan two miles high with waste. We are choking in the waste we've produced. And so at waste fuel, we started with the thesis that our waste could be our fuel. That's, that's the name and that this crisis could be an opportunity. So basically in the municipal waste stream, somewhere between 30 40% of that waste is organic in nature. So this is food waste, largely agricultural waste, other things that end up in there that are organic. We take those organics, we separate them from the rest of the waste stream. And we basically create a gas which we then turn into Methanol, including some proprietary technology that we've developed, that Methanol is then sold into the market. BP is our largest investor. Maersk is also a big investor of ours and we made a bet that the global shipping market was going to Methanol. So as a transition fuel, that shipping would not really use LNG, it wouldn't use hydrogen. No offense to the hydrogen people, it wouldn't use ammonia, no offense to the ammonia. People but instead it would go to bioethanol because bioethanol is pretty easy to produce compared to those things, also easy to move around the world. And how does bioethanol compare to other energy sources in terms of its emissions? So, on a life cycle analysis, which is the way you need to look at these things, bioethanol that waste fuel produces will burn at about a 90% reduction in carbon dioxide to fossil. Now, that's because of how it's produced on the molecule level. This is the same molecule that's burned if you're deriving it from oil and gas. And what's the carbon footprint of the process itself of taking waste and turning it to energy? Because that sounds quite resource intensive. Yeah, you know, we, we use a gasification process that requires some electricity. So if we can get that from renewable sources, we're happy to do that. But really this is nature doing what nature does. Um We've entered into a technology partnership with BP that gives us access to some proprietary enzymes that they own. So not to bring you back to, you know, high school biology, but these are bugs that catalyze a organic process that creates a gas which we then capture and turn into a liquid liquid fuel. So it's not that complicated and geographically in the world. Where are you doing this at the moment? Where are you sourcing this waste from? So we have projects in places where there's a lot of waste, perhaps not surprisingly in the Philippines, for example, we've got a great project with prime infrastructure which is the leading infrastructure developer there. We have a partnership here in the UAE with Verda, one of the leading waste management companies here. We have projects in Uruguay, a project that's happening in the United States, but pretty much anywhere where we can access large volumes of waste is where we want to be. And you mentioned that you a partnership with BP and also that you target the shipping industry specifically, which other industries do you see waste fuel expanding into? And why over the coming years? Well, we're just going to focus on shipping. And the reason for that is that there's a huge disconnect between supply and demand. So there are about 250 new ships that have been ordered that are going to run on Methanol. Those ships basically have none of the supply that they need. So waste fuel could keep itself busy only in the global shipping market if it wanted to. The flip side is that Methanol including bioethanol is an important feedstock for other projects, products, the pet CMS industry formaldehyde, for example. But for now, we're really focused on shipping and doing that in partnership with BP. And you mentioned the project um with A V which is I believe the first commercial waste to renewable energy plant in the Middle East. Can you talk us through the status of that project and maybe one of the biggest challenges that you're facing with it at the moment. Yeah, I mean, we're working through the details up at Dubai Industrial Cities. The, the truth is we're almost there. We're, we're dealing with things now like electricity prices and sewer, sewer prices and sort of the boring minutia of, um, of these projects. But we believe that will be the first in the world or among the first in the world. We have other projects here in the region as well. And you know, I think it's a place that the UAE can be very proud that it's leading like on a lot of these other issues playing devil's advocate, I guess you could say that if we find a solution to our huge waste problem in turning it into energy that could disincentivize us from trying to cut down on waste in our households or recycling. What's your response to that? And how does what you're doing coexist alongside the recycling movement? Yeah. Well, we, we are working with the, the organic fraction of the waste that's not being recycled. So, you know, whether human beings can decrease their, their consumption to that degree is I think a different matter, I mean, it is wild levels of consumption that are driving the emergency that we're in. It is relentless consumption 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And I think that in a certain way, whether it relates to carbon dioxide or relates to the plastics that are in the ocean or many other issues, humans are going at some point to, to understand that infinite consumption on a planet that by its very nature is finite doesn't work. And I actually think that, that, that basic reality, call it a call it a mathematical reality or just a common sense, reality needs to be brought into the conversation a little bit. You know, it seems as if people are behaving in a way that we would never tell our Children to behave. You know, you would never say, you know, you know, I've got three kids. Sure you can buy whatever you want on Amazon. Your allowance is this, but you can buy whatever you want on Amazon in effect. That's how we're acting on these issues. A lot of people are trying to work on it. You know, you mentioned Ap C's climate and biodiversity practice that has been set up by the founder of Apco Marjory Kraus, who's a mentor to me here in the audience that's set up to help companies try to deal with this, you know, create strategies to recognize that, that, you know, infinite waste on a finite planet does not work out very well. I should also point out that Bill mcdonough is here somewhere and they can maybe see him in the back. The father of Circularity, the author of Cradle to cradle a hero to me. We wouldn't exist without Bill and his work. So there are exciting things happening. But I think we also have to just check ourselves a little bit and say, you know, are we behaving in a way that would make sense if we were explaining it to our kids? And I think sadly, the answer to that is no, I want to change tack a bit. So in addition to waste fuel, you do many things, Trevor And one of them is that you founded the Climate Emergency Fund CE F which is a nonprofit that supports climate activists, including groups such as Extinction Rebellion and just stop oil. Now, I know you're no longer actively working with the organization I believe. And you've been quite critical over the past year about some of the aggressive activist tactics that those groups are using. You've called them counterproductive. I wonder in your eyes, what does productive climate activism look like in this day and age given that we are in this crisis that you've spoken about? You know, the, the, the climate activists are an interesting bunch. And the first time that I met Roger Hallam, who's the founder of Extinction rebellion. He told me he didn't trust me because I was a capitalist. Yeah. And I couldn't run from that because I had a long career as a, as a capitalist. And I think that the place that climate activism has gone off track is that they believe that disruption alone will create change. And I think the evidence suggests the otherwise I think that you could block every street in London for the next year. I think you could paint every building orange. I think you could glue yourself to anything that you could glue yourself to. And as of right now, labor in the UK is still going to support drilling in the North Sea because they're concerned about energy security. So what the activists I think have gotten wrong and I respect them by the way because they're coming from a place of deep concern about the future of this planet and they're not wrong about that concern, but we've got to move to a new phase where people with the engineering know how the commercial, know how the people that know how to transform our energy system also see themselves as climate activists. We kind of need to move, move to a new era in this. And it's one that, that requires partnership between people that often don't like each other very much, you know, and, and certainly don't sit at the same table and I think that when that starts happening, you'll see real progress. And I have to say, despite the controversy associated with this cop and, and Dr Sultan's role, you are seeing the UAE lean into this conversation in a unique way that we have never seen an oil producing nation lean into it and they're going to be criticized and they're not going to be perfect and people are going to come up with this problem and that problem, some of the problems may be real, but you have to hand it to this country for being willing to drive the conversation to a new place. It's very admirable. It's never happened before in the history of the world. And I think we, we all hope and we need something important to come out of it. Does anyone have any questions for Trevor? Before I continue, you mentioned um Trevor Trevor, you spoke about infinite treasure. I appreciate that you, you mentioned infinite consumption. And then also talking about people that we might not expect being um becoming climate activists and thinking about activism in a different way. What would be your message to the leaders in this room about tangible things that they can do within their organizations, their governments to really ensure that this issue stays at the top of the agenda and that they're contributing to change. You know, there is a, I had a really interesting and beautiful moment the other day that thanks to terrible jet lag because I live in California. I was walking along the corniche and I heard the call to prayer. Um I happened to be right in front of Adnoc um when I heard it and it led me to stop and think a little bit about the Islamic traditions around environmentalism, notions of khalifa, which is a notion of stewardship. And I don't need to lecture people in this room about the teachings of the prophet and, and, and the deep, deep guidance within the Koran around environmentalism and stewardship. And I think that the key with this cop is rising above the day to day PNL revenue even. But the, the those day to day drivers and stepping back a little bit and thinking about the future and right now the signs aren't good about our future. I mean, with 420 parts per million of co two in the atmosphere, we are seeing ecosystems collapse, the biosphere is beginning to collapse and you have plant and animal species that are sort of the first version of that. But the problem with the biosphere collapsing is that we are a part of the biosphere. We are a part of these ecosystems. So I would just hope that leaders be the CEO S or government leaders or others that are, that are here. And at the table are thinking generationally about this, you know, thinking about where are we in 50 years or in 100 years and think about what can occur. Look at where this country was 50 years ago, you know, anybody that thinks that this isn't possible, look at the history of the UAE and what it accomplished in 50 years and imagine with the same level of commitment, the same level of entrepreneurship and engineering talent and dedication to something where we could be in 50 years, you know, humans are, are capable of incredible things. And this country is a wonderful example of that. And if we dedicate the same sort of focus to this, I believe we can, we can achieve what we need to achieve. Um um Around for four. Um My final question is you mentioned that disruption maybe isn't the answer to grassroots activism at the moment? If that isn't the route, you believe we should be going down? How do you bring people into the climate conversation? Who maybe think it isn't for them or it's not a priority? How do you make people take note who haven't done until this point? Maybe because of the political side of the aisle they sit on or whatever, you've got to get people out of their reptilian brain, you've got to get people out of a scarcity mindset and get them out. You know, as a CEO I think about PNL, I think about my next board meeting. I think about the annoying email I just got from one of my investors. Not that any of my investors are annoying for the record, but occasionally they have requests and things like that that you have to deal with. You know, that's, that's my like, you know, daily. How do I get through it mindset? But if you speak to me about my my kids, you know, if, if you, if you speak to me about their future, what you know what sort of world will they live in if they have Children? What will their lives be like? Will they have birds chirping? You know, will there be animals in the wild? You know, are, are, are, are animals going to be something that my seven year old, you know, only knows from children's books that he read and he knows that they used to be out there but they're not anymore, you know, I don't want that and I don't think any of us want that. So if you speak to people in those terms and if you engage them in a way that gets them thinking long term, rather than short term, I think powerful things can occur. Trevor Nelson. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me.