Chris Cocks, Chief Executive Officer, Hasbro
Joanne Crevoiserat, Chief Executive Officer, Tapestry
In conversation with: Matt Heimer, Fortune

Fortune Global Forum 2024: Brands We Love

Photograph by Michael O’Shea for Fortune

Conferences

Joan. Good morning. Thank you so much for joining us. Um A and Alex, thanks for the introduction. Um So Alex mentioned the sort of idea of uh creating brand love and I'm kind of fascinated by that. Um talking about brand loyalty or brand love points to sort of the truth of what's a very um emotional and maybe arguably irrational connection, you know, between customers and the products that they're most uh loyal to. And at the same time you each have at your command, you know, endlessly growing amounts of data that were the kind of modify this irrationality and give you ideas about, you know, how to use it, how to shape those emotional reactions. So I'd love to hear a little bit about how that's playing out for you. What are you uh how are you, what are the kinds of data you're getting? What are they telling you and how are you reacting them to shape the brands? Um Chris, we were just talking about this earlier if you wanna kind of jump into. Oh, yeah, sure. Uh Well, first off, thank you for having me. Um Yeah, so it has where we use data quite extensively, I think is probably everyone in this audience does inside of their firms. Uh I started off at Wizards of the coast, which is a subsidiary of Hasbro. And in my six years there, I think we oct uh our data and insights budgets. I've been CEO now for about 2.5 years and I think we're on our way to tripling our data and insights budgets. So it's foundational for us to fundamentally understand our consumers and where they wanna go and we'll use that on everything from uh you know, what do parents wanna buy for their kids? And what are the hot new trends that uh little boys and little girls are looking for for the holidays to uh large scale digital games uh where we understand what players are, what classes of uh characters, players are choosing, what formats they're choosing um and how we should be affecting design and in a digital format, in some cases, you can tweak those products fairly quickly based on the way the players are using them, for example, with the digital games in the in the portfolio. Oh, yeah, sure. So magic, the gathering is our biggest brand. It's a billion dollar card game. Uh It's rather complex card game. There's over 20,000 unique cards inside of the, the domain of the game every quarter or so. We release another 250 to 300 cards which really shaped the quote unquote meta of the game. And uh digital allows us to understand how those cards are being used in real time. And if we have some power creep inside of one card, we can either uh nerf it and uh make it a little less powerful or help to edge up some other cards to help offset it, which helps drive satisfaction for the game. That's great. Joanne, you're in a very different sector, obviously, you know, tapestry is the parent company of Coach and Kate Spade and Stuart Weitzman. Uh But at the same time getting a big flood of data in and it's how is that shaping marketing decisions, design decisions. Well, it's great to be here and I'm learning new terminology. So I'm gonna use Nerf it going forward. We don't use that in our business, but um we do use data. So uh just to, to build on um that idea as a retailer, we have a lot of data and our focus has been to really harness that data and embed it in our organization. It's not enough to have the data and even to pull an insight out of that data. It has to be in the hands of the people who are really making the decisions every day in our business to have an action that has an effect on the consumer ultimately. And what we talk about at tapestry is this, it, it's a balance of what we call a balance of magic and logic. Our, our business is a lot about bringing creativity and innovation to consumers. But doing that with an understanding of what consumers value and you know, in, in the world today, the consumer moving pretty fast, there are lots of things that are impacting how the consumer feels from day to day, from region to region. Um And I'll give you an example, our tabby bag, which is uh now a a new icon for the business and it's been doubling in volume, uh pretty much every quarter for the last few quarters. Back in 2020 we had, we, we had seen the tabby start to fall off and um we were going through the pandemic and our normal cycle would have said, let's mark it down and bring in the next new thing. And our data said that actually this is a bag that young consumers are gravitating to. In fact, we're acquiring new young customers with this bag. So rather than so that insight informed our creative teams and that insight led to innovation behind the tabby bag, which was the creativity. This is the magic that came in and we developed a pillow tabby, which was, you know, we're in the middle of the pandemic. Everybody wanted, was staying at home, a soft uh brightly colored uh puffy version of the tabby went viral. Um And since then, we've launched uh a quilted tabby, a times square tabby, a square tabby tabby is uh taking on a life of its own. So it's, it's that it's the intersection of the data that informs the creativity when you bring those two together. That's when, that's when the real magic happened. Sure. Sure. Uh again, soft and pillowy, the nerf word comes to mind again, the different context. Um One of the big narratives around um the election that we just had last week was a sense that a lot of consumers felt uh felt cash strapped. You know, they didn't feel like they could splurge on things uh that weren't essentials. They felt like they were having to ramp back on treating themselves well, you know, you're each running companies where your brands uh are not essentials are about the last thing you're gonna throw out the window. How, how did you see that coming through in the data? How uh or did you see it coming through in the data? I should say and how have you responded to that perceived uh price pressure among your customers? So maybe I'll, I'll kick it off. Um uh So when we think about, first of all, as, as I mentioned, the customer is moving very fast and they're reacting to things that are impacting them including in inflation. But as we think about brand building, we think about the value equation with consumers and the value equation is more than just price um as a brand builder, we're focused on creating emotional connections with our consumer and delivering product and experiences that, that consumer values. So the value equation for a consumer is, yes, what does it cost? But what is the function, what is the style, what is the quality of the product and all of those things go into that evaluation of this is worth it. And so as we do a lot of work, understanding consumers and it's not just reading data, it's also going into their homes and talking to consumers and, and understanding the meaning behind the meaning that they might fill out a survey or you might see in the transaction data, it's really understanding what's on their mind and delivering that value equation that works for them. And when we build in the quality that they recognize when we build in styling and innovation, like the tabby bag, I just mentioned, um we understand what the value equation is for the consumer. Our job is to deliver product that they'll value and they'll buy at the price that, that we, that we can sustain. And so that's I think the essence of brand building and the essence of staying close to the consumer. I guess you also, there's an advantage in the sense of durability. It's easier to pay a premium if you think you're gonna have this for 10 years or 12 years, whatever, whatever the product might be, uh a great game or a great uh great bag. Um Chris, you've got a much wider assortment of things that you're selling obviously. But how uh have you seen price pressures um in your customer base? And how's that been playing out? Oh, I mean, absolutely. You know, the toy aisle, the dominant price point is $10 or less. I think it actually is the median price point inside of the aisle. So obviously, we have to deliver a lot of play value for the money. Um But I, I go back to something that Joanne mentioned that I think is a commonality between tapestry and Hasbro and how we think about things like at the end of the day, we're about delivering magical experiences to the consumer. Um You know, there is this combination, there is a very real and palpable sense of emotion in any purchase, whether it's a high end collectible for a 55 year old man or, you know, a birthday gift uh for a five year old neighbor. Um We need to bring magic and we need to bring it at every price point and it has where we deal with price points ranging from free for our digital portfolio of games all the way up to 500 to $1000 for a super high end collectible. I'm liking that there's the magic overlap between what you're doing even in very different fields. Um Just a reminder, uh speaking of magic, if you wanna make some magic by asking a question to either Joanne or Chris, put your hand up and we'll get a microphone over to you uh and don't be shy um flipping back to uh to brands and data for a second, you know, big portfolios for both of you. And you know, Joanne, uh t she's been pursuing an acquisition of uh of capri, which if it works out, which is admitted any question, but if it works out, you've got more brands and presumably more data. Um does that when you have a, when you're bringing data in from across many different products are the ways that it could kind of cross pollinate each other? I mean, you know, can team Mr Potato head learn something from team transformers or, you know, can can team coach, learn from team Stuart Weitzman, I mean, uh d does the data kind of move across the organization that way, I guess? Oh, well, we definitely see that. I mean, I suppose inside of our toy aisle, we share a lot of our designers across uh different brands. Uh There's a lot of commonality between consumers uh in the ages of like 4 to 8. Um And so the same kind of aesthetic that, you know, helps you create a great kind of my little pony experience often can be used to create a great candy land board game experience or a, a super high end action figure experience. Um And you know, the data, you know, parents usually have more than one kid. And so there's like two parts to our equation. It's what does the kid want and what does the parents want. Um and so understanding parent trends, understanding their price pressures, understanding what kids are asking for watching and consuming. Yeah, that has a lot of relevance for us. Makes sense. How about for you, Joan, I think similar in some ways but as I think about um how we build a portfolio of brands and, and the value that tapestry adds, we we have a purpose at tapestry that's to stretch what's possible. And, and that means that we help our brands stretch further than they could stretch on our own with capabilities that we're bringing to bear across the portfolio. So you mentioned one that's, that's data. Uh There are some data and sites that um are relevant across the portfolio. We we learned that one in three consumers this holiday will do most of their holiday shopping online. That's an interesting insight that all of our brands can use. Um But as we think about the platform, we have a platform where we allow our brands to have their own unique DNA. So their own designers, we do not cross pollinate design and merchandizing and marketing teams. The place where we find uh the opportunity to share across our portfolio. It starts with the consumer insights and the data that I just talked about, it includes technology. So reaching consumers today in places where they are increasingly requires a technology infrastructure that allows you to show up in the right way. So all of our brands leverage the same technology infrastructure. They benefit from the ability to harness all the data that we have in similar ways. But they apply it very uniquely to their brand and their brand DNA. We have a supply chain. We haven't talked about the supply chain yet, but I'm sure I'm sure we'll get to that. But we have a globally diversified supply chain that all of our brands can, can leverage. And that has been incredibly critical all through, particularly for the last five years with all the disruptions and supply and demand. And then I would say last is talent. Um We do cross pollinate talent across um brands across regions around the globe and that provides opportunities for our team members to really grow their careers in new and interesting ways and ways that would be hard to do if we were one singular brand. And it provides an unbelievable um trove of, of ready now talent for our brands in different different areas. So a lot of positives that the tapestry platform brings to each of our brands. Uh Glad you brought up global supply chains. Uh The incoming uh the president elect has said that that uh the most beautiful word in the English language is tariffs. Um And uh I was gonna go with elbow but he went with tariffs. That's fine. Um But uh well, but in all seriousness. There's been a tariff regime in place for a while. Uh Trump started one Biden added uh added to it. Uh Trump has said he wants to expand it. Your supply chains truly are global and yet a lot of your customers are here in North America. Um What have you learned from the past few years about how to manage that? And what are some of the challenges you're looking at going forward? Yeah, I mean, if there's one thing, maybe that I disagree with that you said earlier that, that uh some of what we make is nice to have, like, you know, Hasbro is in the business of creating joy and community through the power of play. I, I think that's a staple for most households. And what we've generally found is what's good for the American household is good for Hasbro. And generally speaking, I think our government representatives going back to Hasbro has been around since Milton Bradley in the 18 sixties. So going back to the Lincoln administration, uh we've tended to have a pretty good uh, cohesion between government policy, but the Lincoln Logs probably weren't made in like Malaysia. So there's the, well, no, I mean, but you raised an interesting point which is if it's, and I, thanks for me interrupt, but I mean, if the price doubles is, it's, you know, I think I might still pay for it but some, some of the, some households won't. Well, I mean, we have quite a bit of um elasticity inside of our supply chain. Sure. Um we're making things in North Carolina. We're making things in Massachusetts. We're making things in Belgium. We're making things in Kyoto, Japan and we're making things in Southeast Asia. And so we have tend to have a great deal of flexibility about where we can make things and how we can react to different policies. And I would say to move production for one place to another. And I would say, but generally speaking, you know, what's good for, what's good for Americans tends to be what's good for Hasbro when you're dealing with like things like play and things like toys and things that bring uh wellness to your household. Makes sense, Joanne, how about you? Yeah, I would, I would just say in the topic of supply chains and tariffs uh over the last five years as I alluded to. Um I think the theme is agility is the New Black in fashion. It's something we we like to say. Um it, it is uh so critical with all the disruption and demand around the world. Um We saw really, really big swings, I think unprecedented swings in demand as countries shut down. Um We saw unprecedented swings in supply uh with also disruptions and to supply lanes and ports and container availability. And we have a supply chain that is globally diversified to allow us to navigate all of those challenges and, and we have really focused on being able to uh navigate those challenges and deliver for our consumers. Our supply chain is not reliant on China. Um So, from that perspective, we feel well positioned less than 10% of our finished goods um are produced in China. Uh So we're, we're not beholden to one country or at risk of having one uh tariff regime uh really impact our business. But again, our focus is to make sure that we can deliver for our consumers and that we have the agility, not only to make sure the product gets here, but it gets here with the quality and the value. And that those that shift in our supply chain has been uh one that has taken several decades to build, right? We have to build the capability. Um You know, the handbag business is, is one that's, it's really craftsmanship, its scale, it's uh it requires craftsmen and we, you know, we're focused on bringing that, that incredible value, durable, beautiful product to our consumers. Uh And that's, that's the uh the focus of our supply chain. And I think you've each pointed to something at different points in the conversation, which is if the customer loyalty is there, the challenges can be overcome by that momentum. Um And unfortunately, our time kind of flew. So that's the note I'm gonna end on. But uh Joan Carvo, Ra and Chris Cox, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.