Chiney Ogwumike, WNBA Star; ESPN Host, Commentator and Analyst (joining virtually)
Interviewer: Michal Lev-Ram, FORTUNE

MPW Next Gen 2022 - Calling The Shots

Conferences

we've already had a very packed day of dynamic conversations. So let's keep it going. We've got an afternoon full of exciting sessions including conversations with olympic athletes, Hollywood mavens and a leader from the Space force. But first we turn to the W. N. B. A. You might think that being a player for the L. A. Sparks wouldn't leave much time for other activities, but not for our next guest who is also a commentator with ESPN and she recently signed a new deal with the broadcast network and that's not all shiny. Yeogu McKay has also led voting rights initiatives and campaigned for a more equitable treatment of female college athletes. She's a real force to be reckoned with and we are here for it. We'll bring in China who will talk about her plans for a media company aimed at combating systemic inequality inspired by her mother saying small drops of water make a mighty ocean joining us virtually today. Please welcome Shania glue McKay for a conversation with fortunes nickel nickel. Thank you. Hi, how are you? I'm doing well, nice to see everyone here virtually nice to have you with. Okay, so I have no idea where you are. It looks like an ESPN studio. Right, yep, I am live in ESPN. We just wrapped NBA today and I'm about to host NBA countdown in about an hour and so like normally I would have driven up to hang out with you guys, but I'm in between shifts nonetheless, hyped to be here. Well, we, we are excited to have you with us virtually as well. Um, and I'm actually gonna start out asking you not about basketball in the W. N. B. A. But about pickleball show of hands, how many of you have played or regularly play pickleball? You have. Yeah quite a few people. I don't know if you can see the people in the room today, but a few hands went out here. So yeah you should raise your hand to write your you're a believer. Um You co founded the Women's International Pickleball Association. Why? Yeah, I know that sounds a little wild, sounds a little wild but it's really it's the fastest growing sport right now in America and the story behind it is that about two years ago and it's a sport that really exploded during the pandemic based on the social distancing but also just people falling in love with it because we had more time and being outside was a good thing. My agent Allison Gaylor and her family, it literally pickleball has transformed their lives so much so that for her stepdad's I think 70 70 or 71st birthday uh they have like they had a pickleball paddle like shirt t shirts, it was crazy and I was like this is something special, something that you have pros competing at the highest level but then anybody can play it. But most importantly the reason why I really wanted to join and help amplify the voices of pickleball players, particularly women is because it's a sport that is dominated by women, women that deserve their risk effect as pros and also just like being able to get on the foundation of making sure if this sport continues to expand which it potentially could become an olympic sport that we have, the diversity, the inclusion, the opportunity and like have that real foundation that I've learned from serving as vice president currently on the W. M. V. P. R. Players Association. How having an equitable foundation especially at the beginning of the sport is so important in making sure that those for women are guaranteed. So I'm playing pickleball in my free time. It's so much fun and they always say if you just heard about pickleball, guess what you're gonna be playing it sooner than later. So, Alright, okay, so for the rest of you, okay, let's talk basketball now more specifically, um the most recent W NBA season was the most watched in 14 years, viewership jumping 16% from the year before. What do you think accounts for this growth? First of all, men lie, Women never lie and the numbers never lie as well always knew about that. But those numbers don't lie when it comes to women's sports and as someone that has literally benefited from having a seat at the table on a platform, um that really helps create opportunities for young women to like have a voice, I think with women's sports, it's all about exposure and an investment and we've seen when companies invest in women's sports and increase that exposure. I mean we deliver one of my favorite friends who's also a part of our agency is Crystal Dunn and you think about how this was the first time the NWSL championship game was in the prime time and to get there, she scored a game winning goal for the Portland thorns. Yeah, I've become a fan, I've been a fan of Crystal forever, but like a fan of this moment, the exposure that women's sports have, once you get us there, once you see it, everyone will come. And so I think it really starts with that opportunity for women, for people to fall in love as you guys feel like I'm literally on set. So you might see in the background, it's having that platform for people to fall in love with the game. Because oftentimes as A W N. B. A players, I tend to get like those trolls sometimes on twitter, people that think they know the W. N. B. A game and they stereotype or game, even though they have not really engaged in it. And so when people see your energy in real time, like if I'm walking down the street, people like, oh, you tall or, oh, you know, you play for the spark, you work on ESPN the energy in real life is so different than what the perceptions of women's sport is. And so by increasing that exposure, we break down those barriers and I've seen it happen in real time. And so I feel like the media, the platforms, the conversation, social media owning your own narrative has really changed the game for women in sports. Talk a little bit about also, I mean, you mentioned some of the platforms, obviously you're you're on an ESPN set here, ESPN has played a very critical role in your career and and and you know more broadly obviously, but you're also seeing a lot of leagues including the W N. B. A spark deals with amazon's with different streaming services. How big of a role does that play? Also these new platforms and these new deals and spreading uh the access to different viewers. Yeah, one, this is America and two, I'm an athlete and we love competition, competition brings out the best in us and so having different platforms that are trying to do different, cutting edge things. I mean, like today I'm hosting, I came in starting off this year as an analyst, but now positioning us as women in different places, that might be unexpected. But then guess what, we can deliver those are the small testaments and like, you know, alluded to the small drops of water that make a mighty ocean that turn the ties and so when I think about over all the different platforms, I think the most important platform is the one, especially as women, the platform, we own ownership is everything because you get to create and dictate your own story, the way you see it fit. And so the more places where women exist and I'm always going to like preaching for the women, but shut up the male allies in the crowd as well. Um, but like whenever you have these platforms where you have women existing in unexpected spaces, but we we know that our failure tends to get magnified, so we stay on point. That's what continues those small little access abilities. That's what sort of turns the tide and changes the notion. So I always tell people like it's not the biggest things that make the splash, like our game is here or there. It's like how does that one athlete be able to brand themselves in a way that's authentic to themselves? And if we continue that mindset in every space that we're in, it's going to continue to propel the women's game forward. So the brand, the branding of not just the league, the teams, but the individual players, it's so important and we are starting to see more and more of those stories coming out. Um we had Allyson Felix on stage yesterday, you know, just these really incredible stories, talk a little bit about how you you have an incredible story yourself, your sister. Like how how do you think athletes, female athletes are embracing this moment, wow, that's like a million dollar question. That's like, it's the existence of our lives. You mentioned, my sisters and for me, sports is truly a sisterhood, I am one of four girls born and raised in cypress texas. My older sister, I mean just straight bad at, I hope that's appropriate. Hopefully it's okay. Can you say the best thing she is my teammate on the Los Angeles part and with her, it's always been this idea. Not like as women, we have to be uh, you know, competitive instead as women, let's be collaborative. I learned that at home with my sisters because everything she did, whether it's become a number one pick in the W. B. A. Go to stanford University, she didn't say anything, you know, I can do, you know anything you can do, I can do better. No, it's anything I can do you can do to turn it. And so that's that mindset that I think has really transformed the way I see women owning their brands. Just saying that we're stronger together. We're collaborative. I'm a part of amazing league. The W. N. B. A. 144 awesome, amazing women a competitive league. It's hard to get the job, but when push up, We stand true. We're not new to this, we are true to everything that we say and do and represent for our communities and so that collective, we saw what happened in 2020 when we stood together and we're a couple t shirts that helped change the trajectory of our country, you know, um with the election and so just using our collective voices, I've learned that through sisterhood in many different ways from home to the hardwood. Even now we're my great teammate is malika Andrews here at ESPN, you know, we're both young and have this amazing opportunity, We love the game, but we also understand there's a lot at stake for us because we know that there is so much more work to be done. So we're on the same team and I love that essence of what we're seeing with sisterhood that just is universal within the sports world and even the corporate world and beyond, by the way, any questions for me, please raise your hand, we can bring a microphone, she'll be able to hear you. Um I wanted to ask you about equal pay player salaries. Um that's obviously been a really big topic in the last few years. Um can you talk about just the progress here? Like, yes viewership is up, engagement is up among the fans. Does that mean there's also been equal progress made on the pay side for female athletes, W N. B. A. You notice this one here won't let me be great. So I keep within it behind, but at times, I feel like especially because we often times are getting compared to the men when it comes to our progress at times we feel like we are victims of that comparison. And I always tell people because a lot of times when people want to talk about WB issues, we are compared to the other league, the reality is on our own. We are the longest free standing, the WB in particular, the freestanding women's sports league ever. And that is an accomplishment. In 2020 we ratified a new C. B. A. Which is a collective bargaining agreement basically the way that we, the frameworks in which our league and the players operate. And that agreement was deemed not just a win for women in basketball or women in sports, but women in the workplace overall, we doubled our salaries where a lot of people always want to say, oh, you know, one player on an NBA team can get the whole salary of an entire W. M. B. A team. Like we don't even talk about that because we know we double our salaries and it's not easy. Everyone knows here in the workplace to go in and negotiate and double your salary strides are being made. We had so many great benefits for our athletes that are just fantastic. And also mothers, um, you know, we have, what is it called fertilization benefits, meaning like if you're a mother and you're doing family pants planning, you can have, you know, egg fertilization, you can get adoption, you can have all these, you know, trigger points in your contracts where if you serve seven years, you get paid maternity leave. You know, there's so many great things that were hidden within that C. B. A. That gets lost in the sauce because a lot of times people just want to talk about those headlines that are misinformed and so for women, I think we're really excited about where we are. And I keep going back to Crystal Dunn because I was following her ivy stories. The U. S. Women's national team has been a huge advocate for just women overall. They just had their equal pay party that looks lit by the way, I think that. And um they were celebrating this moment in which they did not just talk the talk about advocating for others, but they walked the walk in one of the highest level. Now, I know there's been a couple recent matches that have been, but we all know our women are on top of the best. But I say all this to just give this idea that like women's sports, the time is now to invest, the time is now to care because we're on the trajectory upwards. You know, the cool thing about our game and our sport and our business is that there's room, you can't really say that so much about other leads to the degree that we have within the women's game. So as you can tell like this stuff gets me worked up. Speaking of growth by the way, there are a lot of cities across the us that do not have A W. N. B. A. Team a lot. I mean why does the bay Area, I can, I'm sure you all live in cities that you know some of you are in cities that don't have a W. N. B. A team, what what's being done there? I mean, is there we have great commissioner in Cathy Engelbert and she is cautiously optimistic about our plans to expand. Now you mentioned two things that were like, we're trying to take jabs at me one day area, I went to stanford, I know, so I grew up in the bay and so having a team there, we know it will go crazy. So that's the fingers crossed right there and then to born and raised in Houston texas. Can we bring comments back? I don't cities that they have circles, but like to me growing up, I thought immediately examples of women doing things and you know, literally laying the foundation for the opportunities that I benefit from right now. So, absolutely, I think expansion is in the cards and like quite frankly this is selfish for me, this league is hard. We got 12 teams. 12 players could be a starter somewhere else. We will expand and spread the wealth because the game is in such a competitive place that we know that there are so many top players that are missing out on opportunities because we only have 12 teams. So I'm excited about that, hopefully in the years to come. All right, all right, I'm looking forward to it in the Bay Area. So let me know. Um I wanna, this is a pivot here, but I do want to ask you about Brittney Griner and um, I know that the W. N. B. A. Um the players, I mean like you mentioned in the last few years, we have seen just amazing activism out of the league, out of individual players collect coming together um, to make things happen and bring about change. Tell us a little bit if you can about just what you all are trying to do uh, to bring Brittany home. Look, two things we are trying to trust the process because we know we have the right systems in place and we're trusting the right advisors to advocate with a sense of urgency to bring her home. And then two, we're trying to uplift her name wherever we can. So, for example, a good example, here is ESPN if there is a news or an update or the way that we can say her name in a greater standing, like the everyday context of sports, we do that. We mentioned it because we need to apply pressure to the system, Brittany is someone that I've known since I was about like health, like probably about 12, 13 years old. She's from Houston texas, she went to Nimitz high school, I will never forget um starting to fall in love with the game with my big sister Mecca and watching the local news back home in Houston I think KPRC or something like that. And there was this feature on this young, phenomenal young player that could dunk and she was just banging and she was probably what 13 years old and ever since then we got to know B. G. We got my family in particular are her dad and my dad's friends and so to watch her really ascend to the highest of heights, go to Baylor and then you know, win a national championship, go to phoenix and be a top players and all those things happen. She is our sister literally our sister, the world of women's basketball we're connected because oftentimes we might play against each other in the W M. B. A. But we also play overseas. So your teammates with people that are not expected if you just traditionally follow games the game in the US. So everyone has a deep connection with her and it literally pains are hard every day to see that day count go up. I think we're at like was it to 60 something to 70 something like and the news that also was difficult was like the transference to a penal colony where we know that the situation there is much more dire, like it is absolutely heartbreaking. So the most we can do is continue to say her name and to apply pressure respectfully and to trust the process that hopefully soon be g will be back with us because no one, no one wants to ever be in that circumstance and if we have the capability to bring her home like that is that is weighing on the hearts of us, no matter where we go, thank you for that. Um I know that that this whole situation has also helped put some shed some light on just the fact that a lot of W. N. B. A. Players have had to go abroad in order to make money. Do you think that this is something that will continue? Um Do you think that maybe not as much because pay is improving? Well certain experiences in certain places probably will not continue, but a lot of times our players do enjoy the opportunity to go get better. I mean our teams urge players in the offseason because we play from May to october. So oftentimes coaches will say young players go play overseas in finding those skills for next season, but we want to always have the ability to have options. If you don't want to play, you shouldn't feel like you have to pay to play over there because of financial necessity. Um So like my big sister Mecca, I've visited her, she played in Russia for I believe four years, my sister played in Guangdong china. I played in Hunan china and I also played in Italy and we love those experiences because you get to travel and see the world. You know players are competing in Euroleague getting to ping pong between countries. It's a it's a dream honestly, but at the end of the day we want it to be a choice, we don't want to feel like it's an obligation and that you're putting your body through and also mind body and spirit through situations that you're not you're not necessarily like otherwise would have chosen to do so I think overseas will absolutely, you know the international game is healthy but certain areas based on the experiences that we've seen most recently I think are probably going to be off limits. Okay well we need to we do need to wrap. I wish we could keep talking to you because it is really fun to talk to you so but we are just, I'm so looking forward to what else you do and especially on the pickleball side so thank you so much, I'm gonna pull up. Please come next time. Thank you