Liz Cheney, U.S. Representative, WY (joining remotely)
Interviewer: Alyson Shontell, FORTUNE

Most Powerful Women 2022 - The Great Task (Ahead)

in a speech last june, our next guest said these days for the most part, men are running the world and it is really not going all that well, it was a message intended for young girls and young women to inspire them to act the speaker of those words. Us Congresswoman Liz Cheney. As you know, congresswoman Cheney watched her bid to retain her seat in the house during the Wyoming primary in august after coming out of a vocal opponent to former president trump and his efforts to overturn the election results After the primary law, she said now the real work begins and has acknowledged he's thinking about a presidential run in 2024. Representative Cheney joins us now via remote for a conversation with Fortune Editor in Chief Alison Chantelle. Please welcome them both. Alright, good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon, congresswoman Cheney, thank you for being here with us at M. P. W. Um Representative Cheney, as you know, election denialism has swept the country at a startling rate. Fivethirtyeight found that 60% of Americans will have an election denier on the ballot this fall. Um you said that the primary reason the system upheld pressures on January six was the people in power made the right decisions when met with Brute force in some cases is democracy on the ballot this fall, is that the primary thing that voters should be looking for on the ballots and how fragile is our democracy right now. Well, thank you very much for having me, thank you for putting on this wonderful summit and you're absolutely right. Uh there's there's no question that democracy is on the ballot. And, you know, the thing that people need to think about and realize is the election deniers um are really feeling everyone else's vote because the election deniers are saying they will only honor the results of elections if they agree with them. And so when you look at what happened 20 you know, there was again and again and again, President trump heard from the leaders uh at the Justice Department and his and his White House counsel's office, his campaign. Um and then from 61 out of 62 court that there was not sufficient fraud to change the outcome of the election just wasn't there. And we saw that in each of these states, um where this battle is really on the front lines now. And so when you have somebody like Cary Lake or Mark Finchem in Arizona, for example, um who continue to say that the, that, you know, donald trump won Arizona. Um what they're saying to the voters in Arizona is I'm going to ignore the facts. I'm going to ignore the law. I'm going to ignore the rulings of the court. I'm going to ignore our election process and I'm going to ignore people's votes. And I'm just simply going to uh certify elections, I agree with. And and that is just so fundamentally dangerous too. The foundations of our of our democratic system that protecting against that has got to be above any partisan concern, I think, you know, it's notable. I mean you are a Republican Republican, you voted with Trump. I think 93% of the time you've never voted Democrat before. But now you're saying you would actually, if you were in Arizona in these places where election deniers on the ballot, that's pretty significant putting um country over party, you are also the vice chairwoman of the January six select committee. Um The next hearing is this week, can you give us any hints of what we can expect? We know there's a trove of documents from the Secret Service that you have obtained, but what what's around the corner? Well, I don't want to get ahead of the committee. I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear uh in terms of previewing this week. But I will say that the the work of the committee over the last year, year and a half now has really demonstrated, even I think, for people who had followed with some specificity, what happened on the sixth, it's really demonstrated the breadth and the depth um of the effort to overturn the election and to stop the peaceful transfer of power. And it was an effort that at every step of the way the former president was deeply involved in personally engaged in oversaw, um and and you know, I think we've become a little bit numb because, you know, we this is something we've all been dealing with for the last year and a half. But you know, when you think about how stunning it would have been to hear those words, you know, at any prior point frankly in the existence of of our nation that that a president was attempting to stop the peaceful transfer of power. That's never happened before and we have to take it seriously. So Representative Cheney, I'm struck by the fact that it just seems over and over again. The burden seems to be on women to call into account the abuses by the powerful men. Um, where are the men here? We know that they know that biden is the president. Where are they? And yet you're here seemingly somewhat by yourself. Um, although apparently there's a lot of men whispering, hey, good job, keep it up, keep talking for us. Um, Cassidy. Huh? Went before your committee and spoke bravely. Um, this is not so different from the Me Too movement of corporate America where so many brave women spoke out about abuses of power. Um, how did you think about that burden falling on you? Given that you're clearly an ambitious person who built this huge career for yourself? Big dreams still ahead of you in politics. I mean, how did you weigh that responsibility with your own personal ambitions? Why do you have to take this hit? It's, you know, I never thought of it that way. And, and it's really surprising to me how many people do think about it that way. Um, you know, to me there's just no choice if you are entrusted with a position of public responsibility, a position of public trust, you're obligated by your oath to defend the constitution. And um on January six, the President of United States sent a violent mob to the capitol to attempt to stop the counting of the electoral votes to attempt to steal the election. And there's just no, no world in which a constitutional republic can sustain itself if we excuse that kind of behavior. So, um, so to me they're just never, never was a decision or a choice because it's clear what our obligations are. And I will say I've, I've been so moved and just um impressed and humbled by the young women who and and women all across the country. Um, you know, who have real courage. I mean, if you look at, um, you mentioned Cassidy Hutchinson, um, unbelievable courage and, and I will never forget what it was like to be sitting on that diet and to look into that hearing room and see Cathy Hutchinson sitting there all alone at that table. And especially, you know, that is the room where Congress, uh, the committee on Women's suffrage met um, you know, over 100 years ago now to debate whether women should have the right to vote. And, and just time and time again, I've seen both women, you know, like shame off for example, uh and ruby Freeman um and and across the board women who were involved who are speaking the truth, but also just women across the country who are saying this, no, you know, this is a line we won't cross and I think, you know, there there are millions and millions of women whose response to it has been, what mine has been, which is just, you know, kind of of course we're not gonna stand for this and and of course we're going to do what we have to do to protect the republic for our kids. So I want to go into a little bit about the state of women in work. Um It's not great right now, Liz I gotta say there is a lot going on. A lot of mothers had to leave the workforce in droves because of covid um childcare still isn't widely available or affordable to help support working mothers and now with the overturning of row um which I know you supported returning to the States. Um Many have lost the decision though to decide when to have Children. Um making choices regarding their own bodies that have helped women advance in the workplace too. So, um what support do you think that women need to have thriving careers here in America, what role should the government play? Well, I think one of the most important things that the government needs to do um now is uh take steps to implement policies that are going to return the kind of economic growth that that we know we need to create jobs for example, I mean right now, women like men uh in too many cases are dealing with Out of control food prices, they're dealing with inflation that's growing at a faster pace than we've seen in 40 years. Um they're dealing with, you know, fundamental pocketbook issues and um policies that lead to more government spending. We we know make that worse. And so I think women need to be given opportunities. Um they need to know that their kids are going to be safe. Um They need to know that that the country is going to be safe. I mean we're talking about domestic issues but I think we also have a very very serious uh set of national security issues right now, including what's going on between Russia and Ukraine and uh some of the threats that we're seeing um you know about the use of nuclear weapons, for example, the threats that Putin is making. So um I think you know what what what I think and what I hear from my friends, especially moms around the country is that they want competence. Um you know, there will always be issues on which we might disagree with each other. Um but but they want to know that their elected officials um are competent and are there right. Um and it comes like the decision in roe um I am pro life. I believe there have to be exceptions and I also believe that um when we're talking about these issues um we need to do it with a great deal of compassion and understanding for um the impact that these kinds of issues this issue in particular um has on women has on families. Um when I hear politicians talking about it in ways that act as though it's just simply a political issue, um I think that that's a real tragedy and and I think on both sides we have to really reflect on um just just how how serious and personal that issue is. So we here at the summit have the most powerful women in business with us today. Um what responsibility to corporate leaders have when it comes to protecting our democracy, to solving the divisiveness in the lack of conversation and healthy debate that's happening in our country right now. How can corporate leaders help A hugely important role in in several ways? Um one you know, we saw in the immediate aftermath of January six that a number of frankly the majority of um, you know companies in corporate America that contribute to um politicians said that they would not contribute to people who had voted against certification. They would not contribute to people who tried to minimize the insurrection and we slowly watched that change and I think that um we all have a responsibility not to let what happened become normal. And I think that corporate America has a huge responsibility to again say, look, I mean, you know, Arizona is a really good example today where um, you know, people are faced with a choice and they could say, well, you know what I like the policies of the republicans from a business perspective, better than the policies of the democrats, perhaps in Arizona today. But people have to recognize that if you sacrifice the sanctity of the election process and if you elect people whose loyalty isn't to the constitution, then we're never again going to be in a place where we can have those policy debates. And so I think like all vote, um corporate America has a real responsibility um, to be clear about um, the kinds of politics that they're going to reward and incentivize and the kinds of leaders that they're gonna reward and incentivize now, I have to ask careers are not a straight path. They may under they go all sorts of ways and I know that you're spending a lot of time with democrats more than you ever anticipated. Um, you're doing things in your career, you never thought you would have to be doing. Um, and this is not a straight line, probably what you thought you were following further in your career, where do you go from here? Um you're an ambitious person, you must have a plan. Um Well look, I, I really look at it as um every single day you have to do the best you can to do the right thing. And right now what I'm doing with respect to the january 6th committee and with respect to doing everything I can um to make sure that we don't elect election deniers um to make sure that that donald trump is never again anywhere near the oval office. Those those are the most important things and I don't know what comes next. Um And you know, I I think that actually what you're seeing in Washington right now is too many people who sort of are saying, okay well what's my political move and how do I achieve that political objective and and doing that instead of what their their responsibility and obligation is um you know with respect to the job that they currently have. Um So I I really am just completely focused uh professionally right now on um on January six, on finishing the next couple of months is Wyoming's representative. Um I also have five kids, so I spend a good a good deal of time juggling. But um no, I just look, I think people are elected and they have to take their job seriously and and I just don't think that there's any more important issue right now than continued functioning of our republic? Representative Cheney thank you so much for your time for all the work you're doing to protect our democracy. Thank you