Name: REDEFINING HUSTLE CULTURE IN A MULTIGENERATIONAL WORKFORCE
Uploaded: 2025-05-20
Duration: 20 min 38 s

Hustle culture is no longer the badge of honor it once was. In fact, many say it's counterproductive—and that it’s time for a strategic reset. But leaders today face a uniquely complex challenge: Managing five generations in the workforce for the first time ever while navigating the rapid integration of AI. In this new era of work, what does high performance truly look like? How can leaders move beyond outdated norms of overwork and urgency to cultivate cultures that are empowering, collaborative and inspiring? This panel will share emerging frameworks for redefining success and building performance cultures that fuel human potential and unlock innovation.

REDEFINING HUSTLE CULTURE IN A MULTIGENERATIONAL WORKFORCE

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Complex and sometimes challenging when each generation has different values and measurements for success. Add Gen AI into the mix, and workplace culture can become less like a melting pot and more like a mess. We want to help you avoid that. Joining us with insights on building cultures that work in harmony and drive success for employees and businesses alike are Joan Anderson, chief people and community officer at Digital Workforce coaching platform Better Up, and Cesar Carvalho. Chief executive officer and co-founder of the digital wellness platform Wellhub. Please welcome them alongside Fortune senior writer and summit co-chair, Phil Weber. Well, good morning. Um, When uh I was told that I would be moderating this panel, I kind of chuckled and wept a little hustle culture. Um, you know, We've heard a bunch of tech CEOs, maybe one in particular, uh, in the last few months, talking about the value of, oh, people should sleep at the office so that they can work 19 hours a day. But also in the last few years we've heard about all the importance of wellness and mental health and rest. So I'm just big, big picture question to start. I uh hustle culture back? Did it ever really leave? And are we back to glamorizing over work? Um, well, I never thought I would be on a panel that references perhaps a Jay-Z song with being a hustler, um. Or many many other hip hop songs referencing it, I guess I would say uh the word requires redefinement and reclaiming of what exactly it means to be in a hustle culture. I think high performance and sustained high performance and that leading to business outcomes has never gone away. However, I think what has happened is that we often lack the metrics to demonstrate what exactly is going to lead to outcomes. And as a result, that's been replaced with this idea that face time. That just showing up that spending more time in the office is going to lead to better outcomes when in fact you look at the data and it's exactly the opposite. So at Better Up we've done research of the over 410,000 employee sources that we have as a result of our platform being able to be connected to the workplaces with these. Conventions that help connect coaching and data and science to really what drives workplace outcomes and we've seen that over the past few years despite this existence or this idea of hustle culture of people just working harder, the data shows us that they're not working smarter and we've seen performance decline we've seen that. Despite all of the efforts when we look at performance across three categories, uh, sort of execution, basic performance, collaborative performance which is around communication and alignment and adaptive performance which is about innovation, it has declined across every level and the reason why we see those declines is because we've seen a drop in what really fuels high performance, which is agency, optimism and motivation and when we. Add interventions and we focus on the things that drive those outcomes then we see performance rise. So I guess I would say I think we need to reclaim and redefine what it means to be in a hustle culture or a sustained high performance culture and no longer use metrics that aren't really focused on the things that drive key business outcomes there. So before I share my opinion, a caveat here, I am a tech founder. I built a $3 billion business, and 13 years later, I'm still the CEO running the company and I want results. OK, I want Performance. But the issue I think with the hustle culture as you defined as we're talking about here is that It is a liability for organizations and glorifying burnout is a liability. And for me, for 3 reasons. The first one is that very quickly we lose the connection from results and we quickly shift to hours worked and we start focusing on the input. Very quickly, we use hustle culture and other things to have a license to disempower leaders to doing their thing, you know. And there's nothing more nonsense that founder mode, you know, and as a founder, I'm glad to say I'm anti-founder mode, a license to this empowered leader and it hurts organizations in the long run. And the third part I think the hustle culture, uh, the, the risk is like we kind of focus too much on individuals at work and at the workplace, and we forget about all the other hours that are not related to work. Um, when we're at home, when we're with our families, and etc. if that part of your life is not in good shape, if you're not sleeping well, if you're not exercising, if you're not eating well, it will have huge consequences on the way you perform at work, and we can't forget that part. So, you know, the last part, I take issue with the overemphasis on the hours we spend at work. The um coming out of COVID we heard so many beautiful things from employers in this country, bring your authentic self to work, your mental health, your well-being, your this through that, and I'm just, um, but we're also hearing about a worker shortage and now it feels like the balance of power swung back towards employers. Does this mean it's a tougher environment now for to advocate for more training for employees, more coaching, more memberships at gyms or things like that? So what's sort of the environment right now that you're seeing? Well, I think it's the other way around, you know, like, uh, to me I look at those things training, upskilling. Wellness as key components for higher productivity. I think employees will deliver more if those things are in place, you know, if we're active, if we're exercising, you know, like if we're treating ourselves as expected, you know, we're going to show up better at work every single day, we're going to have more resilience when we start facing challenges and make no mistake, there will be a ton of challenges out there. When we research employees and we ask the relative importance of wellness versus salary, 93% of them, especially in the youngest generations, they say that their wellness is as important as their salary. So if you overlook those things, you're gonna be having to pay more for the same talent and you're still gonna have issues. Yeah, I think I, it's a, it's a really good point and I think back to one of the things that I I has already been a little bit consistent this morning I think. The reason why we see challenge around those things is because they weren't necessarily connected to outcomes and being measured appropriately, um, so when things do when anything that's performative or just done for the sake of doing it without connecting to a strategy and being connected to outcomes that show is this working for my organization? is it connected to my bottom line I think those things are always at risk of being questioned or feeling optional. However, when we to your point, focus on wellness. And mental health and building resilience, it's a direct tie to whether or not people are driving the right outcomes in the organization. So I think too often solutions have been put in place without having the right metrics and outcomes to say is this tied to my strategy and then that feels optional. uh, so that's the, that's the myth I think it's it's always a little bit of the execution issue I think when we have these things that can sometimes feel more programmatic than they should be. You talked about younger people valuing their wellness as much as their uh as as income. I mean, are is it do younger people have a spicy leading question. Do younger people have the same ethic work ethic as their parents and grandparents did? Um Hard to say. How are you defining work, you know what I mean? That's the, that's the question. Are young people having to work in an industrial revolution environment where they're, you know, on a manufacturing floor or are young people leveraging AI to deliver things in faster, smarter. Different ways I think, I think it's how we define work and work ethic and what's required in today's environment and it's not fair to me it's not an apples to apples comparison in my opinion. 100% and the definition will change like the same capable people. Person, the same capover that would take 3 days to build the report, you know, can build that report in 30 minutes now with AI, you know, do you want to judge based on the quality of the report or the amount of time that people invested, you know, so, um. There's a transformation happening and that will continue. The next few years are going to be quite exciting with those changes. We're talking a lot about this today. Um. But you know it's here to stay. I, I think, I think that I think advocating for our younger generation, I think they get a bad rap, um, and sort of suggesting that what they value and their willingness to drive outcomes isn't, uh, the same as other generations. And I think kudos to them for prioritizing, you know, wellness and resilience and lifestyle because those are the things that ultimately is going to sustain any high and give them longevity. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, I mean we always hear the cliche that it's a marathon and not a 5K sprint, you know, for sure, although you know I live in New York and all I still hear is people bragging about how little sleep they get yeah and I mean I think that's our fault as a generation has come before. Uh, of not of using, you know, we have so much better data and insights that really tells us what good is, what valuable is, what output matters, and yet we rely on old models and, and I think that's our fault for sort of modeling the wrong behaviors and suggesting that those are the things they're gonna drive, um, success. So speaking of young people, um, What's your, what's your take now on the, the appetite of corporations to, to offer training and coaching to young people? Um, and giving them a sense of the career path because I sometimes I anyway, I have a, I'll leave this for the last question, but you know, young people skepticism has some sort of foundation if they, you know, you wanna work smart now and not, uh, just, uh, work insane hours for, for what, not much of a result. So what's your sense of, of the appetite in corporate America for offering coaching and training and these kinds of benefits? Go ahead. Look, um I think for all sorts of benefits a shifting mindset that is happening is directly looking at whatever you're offering and if people are indeed using them every single month, you know, um, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, every single company would be talking about how many people signed up for a program but not actually if people finished the program, how, how many people are using that thing every single month. Uh, in the space I work at, wellness, physical activity, nutrition, sleep, you know, it's very often that those benefits are implemented. A year later, you have 4, 5% of the people actually using them, and that's a lot of money wasted, and the employees are developing the filter in which they understand if a company truly cares about that or if they're just checking the box. And that is a reality of every single workforce. And one of the things I am proud the most about what we do as a company is whenever we launch a benefit related to wellness, we more than triple the number of engaged employees with those activities, so we offer that at scale, and the clients that are more engaged gets to 40% of participation every single month, you know. So a message on that is utilization is really, really important and, you know, It's just like dog food for a dog. If they like it, if the, if the service is right, they're going to go and use it, and that's a great way to track if it's relevant. I think the perception of the need to invest in these spaces is critically important, um, and I think listen in environments where budgets are challenged back to, you know, the theme that I've been discussing like you have to demonstrate the outcomes and the connection. But I also think if organizations aren't truly invested in this space, truly, uh, focused on building things like resilience and really focused on how you improve mindset, particularly in this AI moment you will be left behind. uh, there is a gap to sort of embracing new technology, new ways of working, and allowing your own organization to continue to drive innovation. Um, and you know our research and data has shown us that some of this perception around AI as a support system or as a tool or somehow cheating the system, uh, decreases adoption and that's concerning. I think that's concerning so I feel like organizations who aren't embracing the idea of training and coaching and enablement and mindset evolution. Uh, at some point are going to see them fall behind from a technology adoption perspective. So I want to open it up to the room and I'll come to you in a minute. So raise your hand and then, uh, we'll come to you. But since we also have the notion of multi-generational in the title of this uh of this panel, um, how about adopting, um, benefits to reflect multi-generations in a workforce it, it just seems it's a bit one size fits all. So, uh, what, what can, what can companies be doing better. You know, to reflect a workforce that has young gen Zers to old farts. I'm not saying anyone here is an old fart, but you know what I'm saying. So I have one tip, you know, with wellness. There are no one size fits all solution, and you should not be picking what works for your employees if it's A or B and C. You should be investing your time and attention on providing platforms or providing the tools for them to make the choice that works for them. And it's like their fingerprints. Everyone has its own. People who like A won't like B, and they will never change, and it's good as long as people are engaged and are using those services are treating themselves, and they're getting better at that. I 100% agree this idea is allowing optionality, flexibility, things that are individualized and personalized again with today's technology, there's so much opportunity to design personal solutions things. That feel accustomed to themselves we look at evolutions we're making in our coaching platform and leveraging AI and someone feeling like this this coach, this agent has been designed just for me because it's based on my input who I am as an individual, where I am in my life cycle, uh, and I think that goes across the benefits of of just allowing people to choose where they are in the moment, uh, whether or not you might be trying to pay off student loans. Or have a child or buy a home or care for aging parents or plan for retirement. There's so much opportunity to provide a lot of flexibility in the benefits that we make available, and I think it gets back to the point around how that can give people agency around their experience at work. We have a question there. Can you just state your name and your affiliation? Sure, uh, Kyle Forrest with Deloitte, um, thank you both for, for sharing your thoughts and. I was reflecting yesterday there was a conversation on burnout, uh, and then even the potential role of the manager in some organizations and I'd love to hear from you both if you're seeing examples of where organizations are helping build accountability, you know, leadership manager, etc. because if you think about um. How you actually give people the time and space to take advantage of some of these things if you have a healthier employee, a happier employee, more engaged employee, absenteeism down, more productive, those those are things that are measurable business outcomes. So I'd love if you all can maybe connect from yesterday to today and and share a couple of thoughts. I love the question. Uh, and there's a story. I was in Europe last week, uh, meeting with other founders and CEOs of companies. And the founder came to me and shared. He struggled with the fact that he He needed to leave work during the lunchtime, and he figured out the best use of his time was to do a CrossFit section at that time, and he didn't share with anyone because he was afraid of how it was going to be perceived. After a long reflection, he knowing how great that meant to him and uh and how much better he was because he took that break to exercise, he shared and the results were amazing. The feedback was awesome to him. What we see on our own data is when the leadership is involved, you know, with. Wellness, physical activity of taking better care of yourself. The number of employees that engage with wellness as well almost triples. So it is a watershed, you know, separation of when leaders are involved or not, and that's because of the role model, you know, like that all of you are for your organizations and all leaders are for their organization. Yeah and same in our data we of course see that where you enable managers to have that connection with their employees to prioritize wellness prioritize uh building resilience within their workplace to be just good managers which we. All been focused on for so long as a people based community it absolutely drives outcomes we've seen across our data that you know we'll see things like resilience and output triple uh when you really focus on those manager interventions so I think to your point it's about both changing the narrative and role modeling what makes sense but still continue to focus on those upscaling opportunities with their managers because they are often the unlock in the employee experience. I, uh, I appreciate your, your comments, Cesar, but I, you know, I can't help but wonder sometimes there's so much f fetishization, whatever that word is, um, you know, for endurance sports, extreme sports that we've seen, you know, like the Wall Street Journal always has the CEO went climbing Kilimanjaro without any extra oxygen, and I'm just wondering if, if that doesn't, you know, if that doesn't intimidate a certain kind of. Everybody should do exercise, but then everybody needs to do hardcore. So what what's your take on that? The hardcore part is counterproductive and the big issue I take with the sports brands like I won't say names, but you know like you all see them sponsoring great athletes and that being the role model for what physical activity is, you know, that is not inclusive at all, like it makes people shy away from, uh, engaging, and I heard so many times people saying they need to lose weight before they. Go to the gym, you know, and there could be nothing more insane in my mind, uh, and this is why we need to encourage normal people who have a job, who struggle with their goals, who have kids and are balancing it all to share their stories and you know like my CHRO. She started like showing up to our town halls with a bottle of water and she would stop in the middle of the presentation, say, look, I need more water, and you know, she stopped and she was talking about it and that had an impact on people. So you like don't, don't underestimate the impact you have on others, and the small habits work. It's about practice. It's about building a habit. It's about building a model and I love Wellubb and Better at being on this stage together because it's about the physical attribute of that, but it's also about the mindset practice, and both really matter. So on that note, we'll encourage you all to either go for a walk if that's your fancy or go run to San Diego and come back. Yeah, and share with your team and be mindful about it while you're doing it. So please join me in thanking Julen and Cesar for joining us. Good morning.